There may not be an answer to my question, but here it is! The more research I do, the more confused I become! Where does the Lipizzaner originate? The people of Slovenia insist the breed was originally bred there,in Lipica, but as far as I can see, horses were brought there from Arabia, Spain, Germany, Italy, Denmark and other countries by the Hapsburgs. The earlier name of Lipizzaners, Karster, implies that local horses were used in the breeding in Lipica, but I don't think that is correct.
The impression I have is that there is not one single place of origin for the Lipizzaner, but they are a breed developed by an Empire for their own use. Maybe they should be renamed "Hapsburgers"!
Montag, 8. Juni 2009
Origin of Lipizzaner
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Interesting question..., which holds me for more than 25 years... After decades of research, I am preparing to write a book now on this subject. It looks like that it will be more than 400 pages... ;-)
AntwortenLöschenThe origin of the breed definitely was the former imperial studfarm in Lippiza (1580-1915), privately owned by the Habsburg dynasty. In this stud the breed was formed, developed and maintained. Horses, born in this studfarm were (internally, in the court area) called "Karster". Later (since the end of the 18th century) the breed was spread around in the whole area of the Austro-Hungarian empire (started with a small herd in the Hungarian state stud Mezöhegyes since 1786) - since then the name "Lippizaner" also became common.
Although the Lipizzaner was bred on several other locations (state studs and private studs, owned by the nobility) since the 19th century, Lippiza always remained the leading stud for the breed. Sooner or later all other studs always renewed their breed with original Lippiza- breeding stock.
The term "Karster" related to this subject, only said something about the origin of those horses, indicating the "Karster Hofgestüt zu Lippiza". It definitely did not indicate that species of a local horse type were used for imperial horses! There is no such a prove that local horses of the Karst were used in the imperial stud of Lippiza!
Only ancient authors suggested this, based on their own perspective. These suggestions were later copied by other authors as truth....
In the ancient, imperial times the state of "Slovenia" did not exist yet. Besides this, the "Karster Hofgestüt zu Lippiza" was never publicly owned. To call the stud (and with that the origin of the breed) "Slovenian" is definitely not my opinion.
(But ok, this depends on definitions and perspectives...- my perspective is not colored by national sentiments...;-)
How the breed was developed (with what kind of breeding material) is a subject for hundreds of pages to explain! You are right that the breed as we know now, was a mixture of horses, originating from different directions. But we do can determine that all those horses, which were used in this imperial stud, had mostly a (direct of indirect) Spanish background, and partly an oriental background. No other type of horses were used. There is no noticeable influence of English Thoroughbred. So from this perspective, the background of the Lippizaner horse is not so diverse as you suggested!
Atjan
Thanks Atjan! I have often thought about the very question you address! Namely whether or not local Karst breed of horses were part of the mix that became the Lipizzaner. But, I accepted it as fact because I never read anything to the contrary.
AntwortenLöschenThe things usually cited as "proof" are statements such as "When the Archduke bought the stud from the Bishop of Trieste, the Karst horses in the bishop's stable were transferred to the stud." This proves nothing about the breeding program. Another thing I have read and thought was not factual is a statement that the mare names Sardinia, Argentina, and Spadiglia were recorded as "original Karst mares" so their Spanish names prove that the breeding program crossed Spanish and Karst horses.
So, I look forward to reading your 400 page book with the true history of the breed!
Thank you, Atjan. Very happy that you will write a book!! :-) So much of the information I have found is biased from one perspective or another depending on the nationality of the writer.
AntwortenLöschenIf I remember correctly, the Stud books from Lipica were destroyed during the time of Napolean. How do you trace the breeding back past that?
Romy
The term "original Karster" for founder mares Sardinia, Argentina and Spadiglia should be seen nothing else but "born in the "Karster Hofgestüt zu Lippiza" - the court stud in Lippiza at the Karst-plateau.
AntwortenLöschenFrom that same period, other founder mares are known as 'Original Kladruber' or Original Koptschaner', which tells us nothing more than the place of birth !
Beware: in those times, people were not thinking about breeding and a horse breed or race as we do now!! They were just thinking about the type: f.e. riding type or carriage type. Or Spanish type or oriental type.
A mare born in Kladrub was definitely not a "Kladruber" in the way we see it now. In the original studbooks, the type is described. And due to the type of the individual, he/she was used in the breeding-section for that type. A simple principal. And when Lippiza needed new blood, mares from Kladrub or Koptschan could be moved to Lippiza. And the opposite around. The next generation, born in Lippiza, suddenly was described as "Karster", simply because they were born in Lippiza...
Also the famous founding sires "Maestoso" and "Favory" were born in the sister-institution of Lippiza, Hofgestüt Kladrub/Elbe. But they were definitely not "a Kladruber" in the way we see it now! They were just stallions of the preferred riding type, and had the exterior which matched to the description... Spanier (Spaniard) (We nowadays would say.... baroque typed).
So.... beware: every occurring term in the ancient studbook should be seen in the perspective of the related time area!
Indeed the studbookregisters from before about 1815 were destroyed. But the main studbook, which was started in 1822 does mention detailed information about the genealogy as far as they could trace then, which is till around 1750.
AntwortenLöschenDue to the continuous exchange between the Habsburg court studs Kladrub, Lippiza, Koptschan, Enyed and Halbturn, a lot of information could be traced in 1822, apparently.
The oldest studbook register of breeding stallions leads back to the beginning of the 18th century.
Before that, we only have secondary sources, like the court's accounting archives, with invoices, correspondence etc. In which can be found a lot, to make conclusion about the structure and background of the breed.
Also about the real starting period, around 1581, these kind of documents are available. Even the names and description of the first 6 Spanish stallions in 1580 are known!
Spencer Borden seemed to feel that Lipizzans were "distinctly" Austrian. He was an American, without any "personal" political or national bias about the Lipizzaner. If they were distinctly Austrian then and had always been, they would be distinctly Austrian now, regardless of any later political re-zoning.
AntwortenLöschen"They are distinctly Austrian horses, of which the nation may well be proud."
Romy