In the earlier blog "Mohrenkopf" we discussed about rare color varieties. Later the famous painting of the herd of broodmares in Lippiza of Hamilton (early 18th century) was uploaded.
On this painting a heterozygote grey mare can be seen with a remarkable dark grey spot. This kind of spots never turns white.
This variety still exist in the present Lipizzaner population. The stallion Favory Alea I (solo horse of SRS' former 1st Oberbereiter Arthur Kottas-Heldenberg) had such a dark grey spot, which never turned white. On these pictures you can see it on his right front leg. But it went up to his right shoulder too.
By the way: Favory Alea I is the sire of one of the present horses of Andreas, Favory Dubovina.
Thank you, Atjan. Do any of F. Alea I 's descendants have markings like his?
AntwortenLöschenRomy
In Vienna there are 2 sons of F.Alea I left: the grey Favory Dubovina and the brown Favory Aquileja. As far as I know, F.Dubovina does not have these markings.
AntwortenLöschenIn Piber 3 daughters remained as brood mare: Perletta, Theoda and Gradita. None of them have that specific markings. But they are not completely white, as far as I remember. I mean, they are lightly spotted (Fliegenschimmel oder Forellenschimmel). So heterozygote grey.
Their progeny is still to young to find out if they might have that specific markings.
So very informative, Atjan. Many, many thanks for posting this...I have so much to learn about color genetics in this breed.
AntwortenLöschenThis grey marking of Favory Alea I reminds me of the "bloody shoulder" marking of Arabian horse lore.
AntwortenLöschenIt is the same, I assume.
AntwortenLöschenIt is not surprising that Favory Alea I's progeny do not have the dark leg like he did. Some greys that are born bay (or perhaps even brown) will retain some color on their "points" (mane, tail, lower legs, or the rim of the ears) But there is not any evidence that this trait is genetic.
AntwortenLöschenRe the bloody shoulder marks... The so called blood marks (because they are often reddish) are not restricted to Arabs and are also not known to be genetically based. Such marks do tend to enlarge with age.
Thank you for these lovely pictures and fascinating details about the family trees of the School stallions, Atjan! Thinking about Favory Aquileja, I heard some gossip recently that now the gene which determines the white colour in the Lipizzaner has been discovered, it might be possible to breed the Braun stallions with mares who have the right genetic profile, without running the risk of reintroducing the dominant Braun colour. Too late, I fear, for Favory Alea II, but it would be wonderful if we might look forward to seeing some offspring from F Aquileja and P Bellornata in future!
AntwortenLöschenTechnically, Lipizzans aren't white. They are grey. IOW, they are born with a base coat color such as brown or bay (Schwarz and Braun are the German terms) and then they get lighter each year until they look white. Rather like an elderly human having white hair. Genetically, the human's hair was black, brown, red, or blonde when they were young but, with age, the hair turns white.
AntwortenLöschenThe gene for grey is actually dominant. So, if the horse gets the grey gene from only one parent, the horse will turn grey whether he or she is born black, brown, bay or chestnut.
If the base coat color like Braun were dominant, Piber would not produce many grey horses. It is only when a horse does not get the grey from either parent does he remain brown. IOW, the horse has to get the non-grey gene from both parents in order to remain colored.
So, if you breed a brown stallion to a grey mare, about half the foals will be grey. If the mare is homozygous for the grey gene (meaning that she got a grey gene from BOTH parents), the foals will all be grey since whichever way they genetic dice roll, her foal will get a grey gene from her.
But, perhaps, you refer to the Milchschimmel (Milk grey - very white looking) color being dominant over the Fliegenschimmel oder Forellenschimmel color where the horse retains small spots of color after they turn grey.
As recently as 2003 when Sponenberg published the second edition of "Equine Color Genetics", geneticists did not believe there is a genetic difference between Milchschimmel and Forellenschimmel. However, if more recent research has detected a genetic difference, it might be possible to select for Milchschimmel and eventually eliminate the Forellenschimmel in a breeding herd. However, it could take a long time!
I forgot to say that the "problem" with breeding brown stallions to grey mares (or grey stallions to brown mares) is that ALL the foals will have at least one non-grey gene.
AntwortenLöschenSome of the foals from grey mares that carry the non-grey gene themselves would get a non-grey gene from her as well as the stallion. So, they would be brown and propagate the recessive brown color to all their foals.
Since all the foals from brown horses will have at least one non-grey gene, the brown color would appear more often in the grandchildren of the brown horse than it does in the grandchildren where both parents were grey. That would happen even if you selected only the grey foals from brown horses for breeding.
That's why Piber doesn't normally use the brown stallions for breeding. They do sometimes keep a brown mare. They can use a brown mare because she only produces one foal a year. A stallion can sire many horses in one season so the mare changes the overall genetics of the herd less than the stallion.
Maestoso Basowizza is a Milchschimmel, is he not? His color seems almost pearly.
AntwortenLöschenRomy
Thank you John, good explanation! The heterozygote greys (Gg) mostly deliver the spots. The homozygote greys (GG) are the most "white". The reason not use brown stallions in Piber is also the increased chance for spotted (Fliegen-/Forellenschimmel) horses, which is not desired in Vienna.
AntwortenLöschenAt the other hand, the research result, as published last year by the universities of Uppsala (Sweden) and Vienna, proved not only the specific genetic role in turning into white, but also f.e. that heterozygous greys are less susceptible for melanoma and de-pigmentation (turning pink). So they appeared to be "healthier", so to say. That is the reason, why a F.Aquileja or P.Bellornata might be used once after all. That part of their Gg-progeny which are spotted to much, could then simply be sold.
Du hast einen Kladruby bei Deinem Namen, aber die sind auch prächtig und schön, dass Du auch an Tschechien denkst <]:o)
AntwortenLöschen