I came across this picture from the Deutsches Bundesarchiv. The photographer is listed as "unknown".
It is dated Januar 1932 and this is the description with it-
"Vollblut und beherrschte Kraft ! Ein Hengst der weltberühmten Wiener-spanischen Reitschule in wundervoller Gangart."
If anyone knows who it is and where it was taken, I would love to know.
Romy
2nd foto-
"Die weltberühmte Wiener spanische Reitschule will demnächst in Deutschland gastieren! Morgenarbeit der weltberühmten Wiener spanischen Reitschule, dessen Leistungen bsher unerreicht sind."
Date September 1930
Source Deutsches Bundesarchiv (German Federal Archive), Bild 102-10347
Author o.Ang.
1962 foto-
Old signature: 12598
Original title: Bundespräsident Heinrich Lübke und Wilhelmine Lübke (untere Reihe in der Mitte) während einer Galavorführung der Spanischen Reitschule.
Dating: 28. März 1962
Photographer: Steiner, Egon
Origin: Bundesregierung
1986 foto-
Original title: V.r. in der vorderen Reihe sitzend: der österreichische Bundespräsident Rudolf Kirchschläger, Marianne von Weizsäcker, Bundespräsident Richard von Weizsäcker und Herma Kirschschläger beim Besuch der spanischen Reitschule
Dating: 19. März 1986
Photographer: Schaack, Lothar
Origin: Bundesregierung
Wow Romy, I love this picture!
AntwortenLöschenI hope someone knows, who this is?
Atjan ?????????? anybody? :-))))))))))) there is another challenge for you ;-)
Ok, and we want to know the horse his name and color :-)))))) oeps, now it is getting difficult ;-)
hugs thamar
Of course we want to know the horses name, we have our priorities! The rider is important certainly, but still, he is only a man!! The horse... ahhh, now that is most important!!
AntwortenLöschenLOL :-))))))))
Kisses
Romy
Maybe a little difficult, but Andreas I think knows these horses well.
AntwortenLöschenKisses
Romy
Yes, I think so!
AntwortenLöschenAndreas, Where are you?
But also Andreas isn't that old, to know all those horses around that time?
He was still, in the making of, around that time, like we were :-))))))))))))) still swimming around somewhere, ;-)
But everything is possible! We have to wait for a answer ! ;-)
I really like the picture, that you found ! ;-)))
Kissis Thamar,
hmmmm.......
AntwortenLöschenI don't know who and where this is.
Might not be in Vienna. I think it's either in Wels or on tour.
I think the rider is Bereiter Hermann Lippert - I don't know the stallion's name, sorry (have mislaid my packet of broom fund postcards which contained a portrait of this stallion, I am sure!) There's another photo in the Bundesarchiv dated September 1930 but surely taken at the same time, with what looks like Lippert, Oberbereiter Pollak and Lindenbauer, and a fourth (Bereiter Cerha?) which you can see here
AntwortenLöschenhttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-10347,_Wiener_spanische_Reitschule.jpg
(sorry, can't do links!)
I thought it looked like a photo taken on a tour given the pre-WWII date/s and the wintery-looking trees suggesting it was not a summer excursion to Lainzer Tiergarten. According to Kugler and Bihl (p. 236) the School went on tour in 1932 to Brussels so maybe both photos are from that tour?
That's for sure the same horse!
AntwortenLöschenRomy, I think we've got your rider :-) with thanks to "paeroa" ;-)
hugs thamar
I'm in California right now :-)
AntwortenLöschenThe photo tells that it was taken 1930.
AntwortenLöschenAdded the second picture and description. I agree, both seem to have been shot at the same time of year. September would still have leaves on the trees. I really like all of the old pictures, of both horses and riders. So much history.
AntwortenLöschenRomy
The pictures are possibly from different years, but I think the same season.
AntwortenLöschenRomy
Have a nice time over there ;-)
AntwortenLöschenI thought so, because your reply's are in a different times than usual, very late :-) But I ended up with my head on my desk, eyes closed, mouth open and slobbering :-)))))
OK, about the picture again!
I think it is the same year, because, yeh... yeh.....look behind the horse, there is a shelf standing on the ground. And if you take a look at the other picture, you see the same shelf standing there, next to horse number 4 !!
I don't think the shelf would be standing there for two years, without being replaced!
Maybe, they really don't know when the pictures are made, and have putted some dates behind it. I am looking for more details, to compare!
I tried to see if I could find a spot on the rider :-)))) but that is to difficult to see!
What do you think about the shelf Romy, could it make sense what I say? :-)
kissis Thamar
Ow, and if you take a look at the shape of the ground, there is a little molehill next to the back leg of the dark horse. And in the other picture, you can see the same molehill, see the darker part of the ground, somewhere up there it is :-)))
AntwortenLöschenhugs Thamar
Thamar,
AntwortenLöschenI see the little hill, I think it is a pile of horse poop! :-) But I think the two pictures were taken at the same time and may have been put into the Archive at seperate times and one or both mislabeled as to year. I don't know the history of the things in the archive, many things were probably mixed up and misplaced during the war years and their exact origins lost.
That the pictures survived is wonderful, I am hoping there are many more like these to be found. I am not part of the Spanische Hofreitschule, but the enduring tradition, the deep-rooted dedication, and at times of war, the bravery and courage of the riders to protect the horses and their own knowledge of horses and training, have made a permanent place in my heart.
Kisses
Romy
I agree with you, that the picture is taken at the same time!
AntwortenLöschenAs you say Romy:
"the bravery and courage of the riders to protect the horses and their own knowledge of horses and training, have made a permanent place in my heart."
Also my thoughts, as a big lipizzaner lover ;-)
I found 2 more pictures, not as old as the first 2, from 1962 and 1986. I will put the links in (copy and paste), I don't think the foto's can be copied to here.
AntwortenLöschenhttp://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/cross-search/search/_1246818331/?search[view]=detail&search[focus]=5
http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/cross-search/search/_1246818331/?search[page]=6
Kisses
Romy
Maybe it's my laptop, but I see nothing, only a white page? :-(
AntwortenLöschenGo to this web site http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/ and use the search word
AntwortenLöschen"Reitschule", it should bring up the pictures.
Kisses
Romy
Yes, it worked ! ;-)
AntwortenLöschenBut you can copy them, I tried to do it!
Nice to see! :-)))
I am so curious, if the stallion is black or bay?
kisses
thamar
The picture of the four riders possibly shows Ernst Lindenbauer and Gottlieb Polak, as this is the pre-war era. In all honesty my eyesight is so bad I'd probably need a magnifying glass to be sure. Time to hit the Podhajski books on the shelf and suss this one out.
AntwortenLöschenPs Andreas, hope California goes well and that my friend Merlin behaves himself !
Basowizza,
AntwortenLöschenPaeroa identified the riders as Lippert, Oberbereiter Pollak and Lindenbauer, and a fourth (Bereiter Cerha?). We are working on the dark horses name, and also I would love to know all of the horses pictured. And of course, I added 2 newer pictures that need to be identified.
Andreas would have been there in 1986, but I don't think he would have been in a performance yet ;-). But he might be able to identify the other riders and horses for us.
Kisses
Romy
Yes, I too was wondering. He looks very dark, does he not? Maybe, somewhere it is written down, what color he was. There is no color photo, I don't think.
AntwortenLöschenKisses
Romy
Yes, he is very dark! but I think to figure that out, we really need Atjan for this!
AntwortenLöschenHe is a living lipizzaner horse encyclopedia, he is into that for allot of years!
I hope, he has the information, about this horse!
kisses
thamar
Ah, interesting! I think 1962 is an Oberbereiter judging by the Sattelbracke so the Braun might be Neapolitano Ancona, who was doing Levade in the School post 1955. Don't know whose he was though...
AntwortenLöschenYou would think 1986 would be easier but with such a small picture, I don't think I could swear to anyone, horse or rider!
I do wish (bleat!) that the postcards and books issued over the years from the School included the horses' (and riders') names. I picked up a nice new postcard in the shop recently which I think is Siglavy Recolta but who can tell? The recent issue of a deck of quartett cards with assorted mugshots is a very welcome exception to the no-names rule - though I gnashed my teeth wildly at the photo of Favory Aquileja labelled "Pluto Bellornata"! This makes me wonder when I comb through old books looking for names in photo captions, whether I might be equally wide of the mark - so don't consider anything I post here definitive!
First Chief Rider Tschautscher on M. Saffa
AntwortenLöschenChief Rider Kottas on S. Plutona
Chief Rider Krzisch on N. Stella
Rider Hoyos on Saleroso (a cross between a Lusitao stallion and a Lipizzaner mare)
Chief Rider Eder on ........
Could be Colonel Podhajsky or Chief Rider Irbinger, but nor sure......
AntwortenLöschenSaleroso was a son of Honroso, the PRE (Andalusian), born at the Terry stud. He was breeding stallion in Piber once. (not very successful, though...)
AntwortenLöschenSaleroso's dam was 82 Steaka (Piber, 1962).
I happen to know this, because my first Lipizzaner was a half sister of Saleroso.., also of 82 Steaka ;-)
82 Steaka was also the dam of 18 Britanica, who was the dam of Kottas' caprioleur Siglavy Britanica. 82 Steaka was the half-sister of 93 Saffa (the dam of OB Tschautscher's famous Maestoso Saffa)
It all in the family! (i.c. the mare familiy "Stornella-Fistula", 1777)
The present Conversano Sessana (one of the breeding stallions in Piber this year, and schoolhorse of OB Eder) is also a descendant of this maternal tribe.
I guess, this was Neapolitano Ancona, who was trained (as far as I know) by OB Irbinger.
AntwortenLöschenI discovered these pictures in the German "Deutsches Bundesarchiv" (German Federal Archive) last year. As they are coming from a German national archive, it seems to be logical, that those pictures were taken somewhere in Vienna or Germany, during a foreseen tour in Germany
AntwortenLöschen(Additional text to the group picture: "Die weltberühmte Wiener spanische Reitschule will demnächst in Deutschland gastieren! Morgenarbeit der weltberühmten Wiener spanischen Reitschule, dessen Leistungen bisher unerreicht sind.")
The group picture is dated 1930, the single one 1932, but I agree with Paeroa that they seem to be taken at the same moment.
I am not quite sure about the rider of the bay or black stallion, but I think the 2nd rider is OB Zrust, followed by Lindenbauer and Cerha. I will look try to find out in my books, if I can trace the dark one.
See my earlier comment with the other picture!
AntwortenLöschenI hope you find it, I am waiting ;-)))))
AntwortenLöschenYou mean Schabracke, right?
AntwortenLöschenYes, probably! the bit that goes behind the saddle - I don't know quite what to call it in English either, since it's not strictly speaking a saddle blanket! :^)
AntwortenLöschenHi Andreas and Atjan, SRS at London's Wembley Arena in October 1986.
AntwortenLöschenQuadrille as follows,
C.Rider Tschautscher - M. Saffa / C.Rider Kottas - S. Plutona
Ber. Krzisch - F. Palerma / Ber. Riegler - S. Verona
Ber. Hoyos - Saleroso / Ber. Eder - F. Dubowina 2
Ber. Harrer - F. Mantua / Anw. Hamminger - N. Stella
Karen, this photo is taken at the Winterreitschule!
AntwortenLöschenAndreas,
AntwortenLöschenWould it have been the same horses and riders for the Winterreitschule and the tour in London?
Kisses
Romy
In a program from 1962, N. Ancona is listed in
AntwortenLöschenArbeit an der hand- Hofrat Oberst a. D. Podhajsky
Were any of these horses, also listed in hand, dark horses?--
Neapolitano Caprice
Neapolitano Deflorata
Maestoso Ancona
Siglavy Bona
Kisses
Romy
Oh Hausi, silly old me, I should have explained, but I was just making a comparison here, the horses and riders are the same....except for Anwaerter Hamminger who was riding Krzischs experienced horse Neapolitano Stella. Sadly it is rare to have named riders and horses mentioned. The better book on my shelf for any clues seems to be the wee one that I showed you a few years back that was signed by Podhajsky in 1965. I notice there are occasional copies of it floating about on ebay. My personal favourite has to be the photo taken in 1955 in the Winterreitschule of the mightiest capriole in hand by N. Santuzza with the riding master himself Alois Podhajsky, it is simply majestic and breathtaking. If I can source it, I'll post it.
AntwortenLöschenRomy, all 4 stallions which you mentioned were grey! There is no doubt about it: the only brown one in those times was Neapolitano Ancona!
AntwortenLöschen
AntwortenLöschenKaren,
The picture you mention of N. Santuzza, if at the Winterreitschule, was taken by Harry Weber.
If it is the one taken in Stockholm, it is from the Reportagebild, does not have a photographers name listed.
Hope this helps you.
Kisses
Romy.
Thats the one Romy, Winterreitschule 1955, photo credit to Harry Weber, plate 116 in The Lipizzaners by Alois Podhajski, What a magnificent stallion !
AntwortenLöschenI do not think the rider of the dark stallion could be Bereiter Lippert. He was more narrow in his face and had a more explicit moustache. I guess this rider may be Johann Neumayr, but I am trying to find some evidence for this presumption
AntwortenLöschenHe is a true "man of mystery" for us. ;-) It is important, I think, to make sure the riders and horses are identified.
AntwortenLöschenKisses
Romy
Atjan, Andreas, Paeroa,
AntwortenLöschenHave you found out any more about the dark horse and his rider? He is too pretty a horse not to be identified. ;-)
Kisses
Romy
Hi Romy,
AntwortenLöschenI found a postcard, think it's the same horse, but I can't read the title on the postcard!
I will send him to you, than you can post it, to see if it is the same horse!
Because I also am curious !
kisses,
thamar
Thamar,
AntwortenLöschenDank u veel!! I really would like to know horse and riders name.
Kisses
Romy
Last weekend we visited a former trainee of the SRS from the 50ies, a pupil and friend of Col.Podhajsky [We were invited to ride 2 of his stallions. Quite an experience! ;-) ].
AntwortenLöschenHe has a lot of material of ancient times, and I hoped that I he knew who our "mystery man" was. Unfortunately he did not know him either, but agreed with me, that it might be OB Neumayr.
Hallo!
AntwortenLöschenAdded a new foto, (thanks to Thamar for sending it to me!!). We think it looks like the dark mystery horse. If the rider is Obebereiter Neumayr, do you know what horses he rode? I assume this would be his Quadrille and maybe solo horse.
Kisses
Romy
AntwortenLöschenAtjan,
What fun you must have had! Sounds like the perfect weekend, good friends and horses.
Kisses
Romy
This is a foto of the 1921/1922 series. As far as I know, this was the same stallion, with whom Oberbereiter Meixner showed that famous low levade (same series).
AntwortenLöschenI will try to trace him in the studbooks.
Thank you, Atjan. You know, I really love that horses' face (OB Meixner's).
AntwortenLöschenKisses
Romy
Romy said
AntwortenLöschen"Sounds like the perfect weekend, good friends and horses".
Definitely! ;-)
I missed the thread on this photo. Can you please give me the name of the stallion again? I have this postcard. It just arrived a few days ago.
AntwortenLöschenThese black and white pictures were taken at the Verden horse show. As the director of 'die Deutsche Reitschule' in Berlin opened his new school in 1930. He does state there has been a lot of good and friendly interaction with the SRS in Vienna and the cavalry school of Hanover. His mentor and teacher Hans von Heydebreck was very good friends with Sigismund Josipovich. He and Josipovich did publish a ridingbook together. In the 4th edition of Steinbrechts "Gymansium des Pferdes" from 1937 Hans von Heydebeck does mention their cooperation on this major work on dressage riding..
AntwortenLöschenJosipovich was friends with the painter Ludwig Koch who did make also illustrations of Felix Bürker in the books Die deutsche Dressurprüfung ;Gebundene Ausgabe 212 S. mit zahlreichen Abbildungen. ( Eine Anleitung für Reiter, Richter und Zuschauer. Das Gebrauchspferd und seine Ausbildung. Beiträge zum richtigen Verständnis der Reitvorschrift. Inkl. 'Gustav Steinbrecht. ( Ein Leben im Dienste der Reitkunst' v. Paul Plinzner. --- Nachdruck der Originalausgaben von 1888, 1935, 1896 - 3 Bände in einem Band.Knappe, für den praktischen Alltag wichtige, sehr brauchbare Anweisungen eines Steinbrecht-Schülers, der dessen Lehre mit den Aussagen der HDV 12 zu einem harmonischen Guß bringt)
There does exist in a private collection a painting were Count Rudolf van der Straten Ponhoz is riding a Lipizzaner in front of the royal suite in the Hofburg, dated 1934.He does still wear the uniform from the K.u.k. Army (blue riding-dress with red trousers) It was the last painting Ludwig Koch did produce before he died.
This is indeed Johann Neumayr, who was rather often working in Berlin were he probably died in 1945 at the end of WWII. He did work there with Felix Bürkner, Harald Momm and Alexander von Arendtschildt. Von Arendtschildt was the last commander of the German cavalry school in Berlin Krampitz.
AntwortenLöschenSource: (archives: Inge van Kalmthout and the book : Ein Reiterleben, by Felix Bürkner) In that book there is a picture showing Alois Podhajsky and the elderly Felix Bürkner taken in Stockholm in 1952 .
As Podhajsky was taken ill between 1942 and 1944, Felix Bürkner was 'on the shortlist' for his replacement. But his political background was not good enough for the Nazi's in Vienna,( he taught riding to Claus Schenk von Staufenberg and Harald Momm and many others who were involved in the 20 july 1944 disambiguation plot on Adolf Hitler ) . Because of those facts he was rejected then for that post.
Ernst Lindenbauer took often the train to Budapest and helped out there as the commanding officer's Hanthy and Hazslinszky were on duty in the Hungarian Honvéd officers. He got assistance there also from an old pupil of Pollak, the civilian Ferenc ( Franz ) Ackerl, I think that Oberbereiter Georg Wahl could still confirm the strong ties between the SRS in Budapest and the SRS in Vienna. From 1938 until 1944 he served as a Rider (Bereiter).
Franz Ackerl and Arthur-Heinz Lehmann did write together with assistance from Major von Hanthy ( Ladislaus Haidekker ) the book: Die edlen Lippizaner and die Spanische Reitschule. Sadly Arthur-Heinz Lehmann did die in a strange car accident in 1956 on his way to the first showing of the film in Germany: "Maestoso Austria" ( a fictional name ). The transcript of that film was made after his famous book with the same title"Der Hengst Maestoso Austria" It has been an impossible and fruitless task to recapture the history and the were-abouts of that film in any library .
Ferenc Ackerle went after the WWII to the USA and trained in New York among others a horse his sponsor had bought from Felix Bürkner. :
This is indeed Johann Neumayr, who was rather often working in Berlin were he probably died in 1945 at the end of WWII. He did work there with Felix Bürkner, Harald Momm and Alexander von Arendtschildt. Von Arendtschildt was the last commander of the German cavalry school in Berlin Krampitz.
AntwortenLöschenSource: (archives: Inge Schram- van Kalmthout and the book : Ein Reiterleben, by Felix Bürkner) In that book there is a picture showing Alois Podhajsky and the elderly Felix Bürkner taken in Stockholm in 1952 .
As Podhajsky was taken ill between 1942 and 1944, Felix Bürkner was 'on the shortlist' for his replacement. But his political background was not good enough for the Nazi's in Vienna,( he taught riding to Claus Schenk von Staufenberg and Harald Momm and many others who were involved in the 20 july 1944 disambiguation plot on Adolf Hitler ) . Because of those facts he was rejected then for that post.
Ernst Lindenbauer took often the train to Budapest and helped out there as the commanding officer's Hanthy and Hazslinszky were on duty as officers in the Hungarian Honvéd .He got assistance there also from an old pupil of Pollak, the civilian Ferenc ( Franz ) Ackerl, I think that Oberbereiter Georg Wahl could still confirm the strong ties between the SRS in Budapest and the SRS in Vienna. From 1938 until 1944 he served as a Rider (Bereiter). Podhasjky did call the Hungarian school a "sisterschool"
Franz Ackerl and Arthur-Heinz Lehmann did write together with assistance from Major `von´ Hanthy ( Ladislaus Haidekker ) the book: Die edlen Lippizaner and die Spanische Reitschule. Sadly Arthur-Heinz Lehmann did die in a strange car accident in 1956 on his way to the first showing of the film in Germany: "Maestoso Austria" ( a fictional name ). The transcript of that film was made after his famous book with the same title"Der Hengst Maestoso Austria" It has been an impossible and fruitless task to recapture the history and the were-abouts of that film in any library .
Ferenc Ackerle went after the WWII to the USA and trained in New York some Lipizzaner and among others a horse called "Zigeunerbaron" that his sponsor( xyz) had bought from Felix Bürkner."Zigeunerbaron"( German Warm-blood) was the last horse Bürkner produced, before he died suddenly as he was riding one of his horses in 1954.