It will turn into white completely, I suppose. But if you look at all varieties of the robes of the foals in the several Lipizzaner state studs (so after they lost their birth-hair, and before the first moulting), and imagine that the grey-factor would not be there.... the Lipizzaner world would be rather colorful ;-)
But no, irregular color or robe varieties are never put aside within the breed. (But every variety must be clarified somehow by the pedigree and history of the breed!)
Does anyone remember the sire of Andreas' present stallion Favory Dubovina, Favory Alea I (the solo-horse of former 1st Chief Rider Kottas) ? He had a very rare grey area on his shoulder and foreleg, which never turned into grey. The same variety can be seen on the famous painting of Hamilton of the Lippiza-herd in the beginning of the 18th century! It's all in the breed ;-)
Stellt sich die Frage, von welchen aller Vorfahren, dies weitergegeben werden könnte, wie sieht das in Piber aus, passiert es mal,dass noch aus alten Genen eine andere Farbe rauskommt,oder ist die Schimmelfärbung dominant genug, ab und an wurden ja noch Braune in Wien gezeigt. Owei, diese Seiten sind sooo fesselnd, machen ja geradezu süchtig.
In Piber kommen nur machmal Braune zur Welt, neben dem "Milchschimmel" natürlich. In Rumänien gibt es noch Füchse, in Topolcianky (Slowakei) noch alle 20 Jahre mal einen Falben. Schecken gab es zuletzt um 1900 (hab ein Photo von einem).
Danke für Deine Antwort; und in Ungarn habe ich noch einen Vetreter der Tulipan-linie gesehen, ein Rappe. Was versteht man denn unter "Milchschimmel", habe ich noch nie gehört?
The opposite of a complete white "Milchschimmel" is a "Fliegenschimmel" or "Forellenschimmel": spotted with those tiny little, never disappearing dark spots, like flies. (I do not know what the English term is) This robe-variety is not desired in the SRS: the stallions should turn into a white robe completely.
Nevertheless those stallions who have this spotted variety only in a small form, can be used as well, of course. Also in breeding for the SRS. It might even be healthier for the population!
Recent scientific research proved that the spotted greys all bear the heterozygote grey-factor (Gg). It appeared that these horses are in average less sensitive for health problems like melanomas and de-pigmentation (turning pink around nose, eyes and genitalia). It is also this Gg-factor, which is the reason that out of two heterozygote greys a non-grey (a brown-bay-chestnut-black-what ever) can be born.
So you really need heterozygote greys (Gg) in the Piber-population: in order to keep the possibility open for non-greys. And to keep the population less sensitive for pigmentation failures.
By the way.... in the meanwhile I visited this "Mohrkopf"- foal (the original subject of this topic) for studbook inspection. After his first hair-change, the dark-headed effect disappeared. He is now a normal colored foal (black-brownish, turning into grey), but with a significant light robe.
atjanh, I wonder if UK term for the spotted tiny little dark spots like flies is - flea bitten?
Ragyogo 1 is what always known as a flea bitten grey - I've added a photo taken in August this year to her album - Ragyogo 1
She's more white/grey than when she came to Wales UK in March 2003 as a 9yr old but as you can see from the photos in her album, she still retains her flea bitten marks - I often wonder how characteristic this is of Lippizans?
atjanh, reference your comment above regarding recent scientific research relating to spotted greys - here is a link to Equine melanoma in a population of 296 grey Lipizzaner horses - that I found some time ago - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12638791?dopt=Abstract
Is the information you refer to more recent? If so, please will you post the link so that I can read it?
For as long as I can remember, I have known that grey's can be disposed to melanomas - Rags has long been aquainted with a thorough checking all over for any new lumps & bumps - thankfully, so far, other than those caused by biting creatures, she's fine!
Lovely, lovely baby! Gorgeous color.
AntwortenLöschenAtjan, please keep us updated about the color!
AntwortenLöschenWithin 2 or 3 months I will make a protocol for this foal, for studbook entry. We will see then!
AntwortenLöschenAtjan, does the head stay dark, and the rest of the body turns white with age? Is it still an accepted color in the Lipizzaners?
AntwortenLöschenClara
It will turn into white completely, I suppose. But if you look at all varieties of the robes of the foals in the several Lipizzaner state studs (so after they lost their birth-hair, and before the first moulting), and imagine that the grey-factor would not be there.... the Lipizzaner world would be rather colorful ;-)
AntwortenLöschenBut no, irregular color or robe varieties are never put aside within the breed. (But every variety must be clarified somehow by the pedigree and history of the breed!)
Does anyone remember the sire of Andreas' present stallion Favory Dubovina, Favory Alea I (the solo-horse of former 1st Chief Rider Kottas) ? He had a very rare grey area on his shoulder and foreleg, which never turned into grey. The same variety can be seen on the famous painting of Hamilton of the Lippiza-herd in the beginning of the 18th century! It's all in the breed ;-)
I posted a foto of Hamilton's Lipizzaner herd for reference.
AntwortenLöschenIs there a picture of Favory Alea I? How rare is an irregular color ocurring in the Lipizzan?
AntwortenLöschenI tried to find a good picture of F.Alea I on the internet, but only found 2 bad photos. So I will try to find a proper one in my personal archive.
AntwortenLöschenAtjan,
AntwortenLöschenI would be very happy to see a picture of F.Alea if you can find one. You are very kind to look for one.
Romy
I just added two pictures of Favory Alea I
AntwortenLöschenStellt sich die Frage, von welchen aller Vorfahren, dies weitergegeben werden könnte,
AntwortenLöschenwie sieht das in Piber aus, passiert es mal,dass noch aus alten Genen eine andere Farbe rauskommt,oder ist die Schimmelfärbung dominant genug, ab und an wurden ja noch Braune in Wien gezeigt.
Owei, diese Seiten sind sooo fesselnd, machen ja geradezu süchtig.
In Piber kommen nur machmal Braune zur Welt, neben dem "Milchschimmel" natürlich.
AntwortenLöschenIn Rumänien gibt es noch Füchse, in Topolcianky (Slowakei) noch alle 20 Jahre mal einen Falben. Schecken gab es zuletzt um 1900 (hab ein Photo von einem).
Danke für Deine Antwort; und in Ungarn habe ich noch einen Vetreter der Tulipan-linie gesehen, ein Rappe. Was versteht man denn unter "Milchschimmel", habe ich noch nie gehört?
AntwortenLöschenZum "Milchschimmel" wird ein Lipizzaner im Alter zwischen sechs und zehn Jahren. Er hat dann die Farbe von Milch.
AntwortenLöschenIs Milchschimmel used for all Lipi's of that age, whether they have grey, chestnut or no spots?
AntwortenLöschenRomy
"Milchschimmel" is the breeding aim. 98 % of the stallions become "Milchschimmel", the others don't.
AntwortenLöschenThe opposite of a complete white "Milchschimmel" is a "Fliegenschimmel" or "Forellenschimmel": spotted with those tiny little, never disappearing dark spots, like flies. (I do not know what the English term is) This robe-variety is not desired in the SRS: the stallions should turn into a white robe completely.
AntwortenLöschenNevertheless those stallions who have this spotted variety only in a small form, can be used as well, of course. Also in breeding for the SRS. It might even be healthier for the population!
Recent scientific research proved that the spotted greys all bear the heterozygote grey-factor (Gg). It appeared that these horses are in average less sensitive for health problems like melanomas and de-pigmentation (turning pink around nose, eyes and genitalia).
It is also this Gg-factor, which is the reason that out of two heterozygote greys a non-grey (a brown-bay-chestnut-black-what ever) can be born.
So you really need heterozygote greys (Gg) in the Piber-population: in order to keep the possibility open for non-greys. And to keep the population less sensitive for pigmentation failures.
By the way.... in the meanwhile I visited this "Mohrkopf"- foal (the original subject of this topic) for studbook inspection. After his first hair-change, the dark-headed effect disappeared. He is now a normal colored foal (black-brownish, turning into grey), but with a significant light robe.
AntwortenLöschenatjanh,
AntwortenLöschenI wonder if UK term for the spotted tiny little dark spots like flies is - flea bitten?
Ragyogo 1 is what always known as a flea bitten grey - I've added a photo taken in August this year to her album - Ragyogo 1
She's more white/grey than when she came to Wales UK in March 2003 as a 9yr old but as you can see from the photos in her album, she still retains her flea bitten marks - I often wonder how characteristic this is of Lippizans?
atjanh,
AntwortenLöschenreference your comment above regarding recent scientific research relating to spotted greys - here is a link to Equine melanoma in a population of 296 grey Lipizzaner horses - that I found some time ago -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12638791?dopt=Abstract
Is the information you refer to more recent?
If so, please will you post the link so that I can read it?
For as long as I can remember, I have known that grey's can be disposed to melanomas - Rags has long been aquainted with a thorough checking all over for any new lumps & bumps - thankfully, so far, other than those caused by biting creatures, she's fine!