lip6. This is a new card for me. It was taken about 1970. Can somebody help with a horse & Rider name Please, hopefully I can come back for awhile. I have missed everybody.
Lovely photograph.....the light silhouetting the stallion is beautiful - there is even a touch of light on the Chief Riders shoulder. I wonder who the photographer was??
It looks like they are about to do a courbette! OB Riegler and P. Troja II did courbettes under saddle in performances. We saw him in a 1992 performance but I think the horse retired sometime between 1992 and 1997
generale is a kladruber that belongs to the roots of the lipizzaner race. i am not far enough with collecting data from the beginning of lipizzaner breed (somewhere around 1860 actually) to post exact details (and i am not sure if i will find any details about THIS stallion in our documents). only history might give an explanation: lippiza went to kladrub sometime before the first world war and bought horses over there (they have been stronger and larger than the horses in lippiza). i guess this stallion also belongs to this purchase. at least his age would comply with those facts. he is absolutely white so he should be older than ten years by any means. or maybe his father was one of those purchases...
Rorella is in principle right. There was an exchange on regular base between all imperial studfarms during history. F.e., if a smaller Kladruber stallion or mare would fit better to the breeding goals of Lippiza, it simply was transferred. And sometimes Kladruber stallions were used in Lippiza (presumably the sire of this "Generale Malaga" - I will check in the imperial studbooks for you). Or Lipizzaner stallions in Kladrub. It is all in the family! All Kladrubian mare families are also Lipizzaner marefamilies! (Rorella knows... with her Rava-family in her stable!).
Also sometimes smaller or lighter Kladruber mares were transferred from Kladrub to Lippiza, because they fitted better there. In the same period as this "Generale Malaga" , also a stallion called "Neapolitano Salva" was trained in the SRS. His dam "Salva" was a Kladrub mare.
Please note that it is just a fairy tale, that only Lipizzaners (or better: horses, born in the imperial stud of Lippiza) were used in the SRS in ancient times. Sometimes stallions from the other imperial studs (of which Kladrub was the largest) or Austro-Hungarian state studs did fit to the demands of the SRS. And were therefore transferred to the stables of the Hofburg.
For some period in the 18th century, primary stallions from the Halbturn-stud were used in the SRS (those from the famous Hamilton-paintings!). And also from the Koptschan-stud (near Holic - nowadays Slovakia). And sometimes from Kladrub. Till the 19th century Kladrub did not breed exclusively the heavier type for the gala-coaches, which we know now as "Kladruber", but also lighter horses for riding. The famous founding stallions "Favory" and "Maestoso" were a good example of the riding type of Kladrub.
Some examples of non-Lippiza horse in the SRS the 19th century: The stallions Incitato and El Bedavy from Mezöhegyes (both Spanish/Lipizzan/Arabian crossbreds). The Arabian stallion Ali from Radautz.
Some examples of the 20th century: several Barb-stallions during WW II. In the 70'ies: Gazlan (Shagya-Arabian) and Honroso (PRE). And Saleroso (halfbred son of Honroso out of a Lipizzaner mare).
So do not believe the simple ABC-story what common "tourist"-books tell you about the SRS !! The true history in the imperial times is far more wider and not demarcated by SRS-Lipizzaner-SRS-Lipizzaner etc.
He was born in the imperial stud of Lippiza in 1913. He was the son of the Lipizzan broodmare 649 Malaga (Lippiza, 1896 - Maestoso Slavina III x Madera II) and the Kladruber stallion 177 Generale Noblessa (Kladrub, 1899).
This stallion 177 Generale Noblessa came from the imperial stables in Vienna to Lippiza for just one breedingseason, in 1912. He did not have much offspring. After fulfilling his task in Lippiza, he went back to Vienna. For a Kladruber he was rather small. About 15.2 / 1.58m
In the top foto of Generale Malaga, it looks as though the rider has dropped his curb rein and is using only the snaffle. In the bottom, he has both. Neither foto looks like a good Capriole. The bottom foto, the horses back legs are better than the first, but his front legs are not good in either.
Please note, that both pictures were taken in the late twenties, more than 80 years ago! It is amazing, that they could "catch" this moment anyhow ! To catch the ideal moment of the jump of a capriole is even in our times very difficult. Only with professional, fast repeating cameras it is possible.
But I agree the picture above that his stretch moment was not equal, and therefore not completely correct. But... well... ;-)
I agree. As a professional photographer, Catching these moments without being extremely blurred in the 20-30's would have been nearly impossible. The top picture is more in focus but so is the background in both photos. Shutter Speed and Aperture. Shutter Speed would have to be fast and the background blurred. It's not. Top photo the horse is sun lite I think background is shade. Bottom photo is equal. We only had Box cameras back then, but then probably the German's were more advanced than the America's.
I entered the SRS 1984, 1985 we got the stallion "Gazlan Bellamira" from Piber to the SRS. He was four and quite big and beautiful, but he had a problem in walk. We sold him. So if this stallion would have been capable for the training and would have brad, we would have got the new stallion line "Gazlan".
No, this is not a Lipizzaner, but a Kladruber. It is the Czech breeding stallion Generalissimus XXIX (born Kladruby, 1965)
Kladrubsky belous = Kladruber gray Plemenny hrebec = breeding stallion of the stud. (i.e. the Czech state stud Kladruby nad Labem/Kladrub upon Elbe)
His grandsire, however, was a Lipizzaner: an Hungarian Favory. So this Generalissimus XXIX bears 25% Lipizzaner blood.
Just in ancient times, sometimes during the last decades non-Kladruber blood was added to the grey population in Kladrub, just to increase the genetic width. Two times a Hungarian Lipizzaner from the Favory-line, once a Lusitano from Portugal, called Rudolfo (s. Eneias).
It is from the same period as the other picture from Lipica, the beginning 70-ies. It even may be the same horse!
There were not many dressage riders in Lipica in those times, only the young Klavdij Maver. (See my earlier comments to that other picture). And they did not have many stallions, trained on high level in those times. Therefore it could be the same stallion.
Chief Rider Riegler and Pluto Troja I
AntwortenLöschenTHANKS! Moving again......
AntwortenLöschenFirst Chief Rider Kottas and Pluto Troja II
AntwortenLöschenLovely photograph.....the light silhouetting the stallion is beautiful - there is even a touch of light on the Chief Riders shoulder. I wonder who the photographer was??
AntwortenLöschenThe photo was by Henric F. Brabec d'lpra. Taken at the Summer Riding School. Unknown date. I love the photo myself.
AntwortenLöschenIt looks like they are about to do a courbette! OB Riegler and P. Troja II did courbettes under saddle in performances. We saw him in a 1992 performance but I think the horse retired sometime between 1992 and 1997
AntwortenLöschenIt looks to me as if they are going to do a Levade. He is a beautiful Lipi, isn't he?
AntwortenLöschenKisses
Romy
generale is a kladruber that belongs to the roots of the lipizzaner race. i am not far enough with collecting data from the beginning of lipizzaner breed (somewhere around 1860 actually) to post exact details (and i am not sure if i will find any details about THIS stallion in our documents). only history might give an explanation: lippiza went to kladrub sometime before the first world war and bought horses over there (they have been stronger and larger than the horses in lippiza). i guess this stallion also belongs to this purchase. at least his age would comply with those facts. he is absolutely white so he should be older than ten years by any means. or maybe his father was one of those purchases...
AntwortenLöschenRorella is in principle right. There was an exchange on regular base between all imperial studfarms during history. F.e., if a smaller Kladruber stallion or mare would fit better to the breeding goals of Lippiza, it simply was transferred. And sometimes Kladruber stallions were used in Lippiza (presumably the sire of this "Generale Malaga" - I will check in the imperial studbooks for you). Or Lipizzaner stallions in Kladrub. It is all in the family! All Kladrubian mare families are also Lipizzaner marefamilies! (Rorella knows... with her Rava-family in her stable!).
AntwortenLöschenAlso sometimes smaller or lighter Kladruber mares were transferred from Kladrub to Lippiza, because they fitted better there. In the same period as this "Generale Malaga" , also a stallion called "Neapolitano Salva" was trained in the SRS. His dam "Salva" was a Kladrub mare.
Please note that it is just a fairy tale, that only Lipizzaners (or better: horses, born in the imperial stud of Lippiza) were used in the SRS in ancient times. Sometimes stallions from the other imperial studs (of which Kladrub was the largest) or Austro-Hungarian state studs did fit to the demands of the SRS. And were therefore transferred to the stables of the Hofburg.
For some period in the 18th century, primary stallions from the Halbturn-stud were used in the SRS (those from the famous Hamilton-paintings!). And also from the Koptschan-stud (near Holic - nowadays Slovakia). And sometimes from Kladrub. Till the 19th century Kladrub did not breed exclusively the heavier type for the gala-coaches, which we know now as "Kladruber", but also lighter horses for riding. The famous founding stallions "Favory" and "Maestoso" were a good example of the riding type of Kladrub.
Some examples of non-Lippiza horse in the SRS the 19th century:
The stallions Incitato and El Bedavy from Mezöhegyes (both Spanish/Lipizzan/Arabian crossbreds). The Arabian stallion Ali from Radautz.
Some examples of the 20th century: several Barb-stallions during WW II. In the 70'ies: Gazlan (Shagya-Arabian) and Honroso (PRE). And Saleroso (halfbred son of Honroso out of a Lipizzaner mare).
So do not believe the simple ABC-story what common "tourist"-books tell you about the SRS !! The true history in the imperial times is far more wider and not demarcated by SRS-Lipizzaner-SRS-Lipizzaner etc.
No, Chief Rider Riegler and Pluto Troja I did Levade!
AntwortenLöschenI found Generale Malaga in my data!
AntwortenLöschenHe was born in the imperial stud of Lippiza in 1913. He was the son of the Lipizzan broodmare 649 Malaga (Lippiza, 1896 - Maestoso Slavina III x Madera II) and the Kladruber stallion 177 Generale Noblessa (Kladrub, 1899).
This stallion 177 Generale Noblessa came from the imperial stables in Vienna to Lippiza for just one breedingseason, in 1912. He did not have much offspring. After fulfilling his task in Lippiza, he went back to Vienna. For a Kladruber he was rather small. About 15.2 / 1.58m
In the top foto of Generale Malaga, it looks as though the rider has dropped his curb rein and is using only the snaffle. In the bottom, he has both.
AntwortenLöschenNeither foto looks like a good Capriole. The bottom foto, the horses back legs are better than the first, but his front legs are not good in either.
Romy
That is wonderful! Amazing. Truly a wonderful find. Thank you so very much for this information! Awesome!
AntwortenLöschenThank you
Marcia
Please note, that both pictures were taken in the late twenties, more than 80 years ago! It is amazing, that they could "catch" this moment anyhow ! To catch the ideal moment of the jump of a capriole is even in our times very difficult. Only with professional, fast repeating cameras it is possible.
AntwortenLöschenBut I agree the picture above that his stretch moment was not equal, and therefore not completely correct. But... well... ;-)
I agree. As a professional photographer, Catching these moments without being extremely blurred in the 20-30's would have been nearly impossible. The top picture is more in focus but so is the background in both photos. Shutter Speed and Aperture. Shutter Speed would have to be fast and the background blurred. It's not. Top photo the horse is sun lite I think background is shade. Bottom photo is equal. We only had Box cameras back then, but then probably the German's were more advanced than the America's.
AntwortenLöschenI am happy to own these postcards
I entered the SRS 1984, 1985 we got the stallion "Gazlan Bellamira" from Piber to the SRS. He was four and quite big and beautiful, but he had a problem in walk. We sold him. So if this stallion would have been capable for the training and would have brad, we would have got the new stallion line "Gazlan".
AntwortenLöschenNo, this is not a Lipizzaner, but a Kladruber. It is the Czech breeding stallion Generalissimus XXIX (born Kladruby, 1965)
AntwortenLöschenKladrubsky belous = Kladruber gray
Plemenny hrebec = breeding stallion of the stud. (i.e. the Czech state stud Kladruby nad Labem/Kladrub upon Elbe)
His grandsire, however, was a Lipizzaner: an Hungarian Favory. So this Generalissimus XXIX bears 25% Lipizzaner blood.
Just in ancient times, sometimes during the last decades non-Kladruber blood was added to the grey population in Kladrub, just to increase the genetic width. Two times a Hungarian Lipizzaner from the Favory-line, once a Lusitano from Portugal, called Rudolfo (s. Eneias).
It is from the same period as the other picture from Lipica, the beginning 70-ies. It even may be the same horse!
AntwortenLöschenThere were not many dressage riders in Lipica in those times, only the young Klavdij Maver. (See my earlier comments to that other picture). And they did not have many stallions, trained on high level in those times. Therefore it could be the same stallion.
Thank you very much, That was a ton of information.
AntwortenLöschenMarcia
Chief Rider Irbinger and Neapolitano Nautika
AntwortenLöschen